This is the article that I wasn’t going to write. I’d picked up my keyboard yesterday to tell the world how much I objected to our ground being used as the backdrop to Liverpool’s show of collective injustice, only to decide that I probably wasn’t good enough to pull off the article that I had pictured in my mind, then Bernard pipped me to it in a much more succinct way than I would ever manage, so that was that. Or so I thought, until I saw the comments to Bernard’s article when I woke up this morning.
Just so we can be clear, I’ve not got anything against Louis Suarez, I don’t hold Patrice Evra in any higher regard. I don’t hate Liverpool or Scousers in general, in fact I count Scousers amongst my best friends (because that’s a defence, right?). If pushed I’d even go as far as telling you that I think that Suarez, probably, isn’t a racist.
But that’s not the point here is it? No matter how much Liverpool might want you to believe it, Suarez wasn’t found guilty of being a racist, he was found guilty of using abusive language towards another player and doing so with reference to the skin colour of that player. What’s more I’ve not seen any defence that says Suarez didn’t do those things rather the more subtle (and to some extents contradictory) “it’s only Evra’s word that he said it” and “well, it’s not offensive where I come from”.
It’s this second defence that makes things most interesting because it can essentially be translated as “it’s a racist act to find me guilty of a racist act” but that’s just to digress, my point is that at no stage, that I am aware of, has Suarez denied using the words he has been accused of, so for the purposes of what I am about to say, let’s assume that he did have an exchange with Evra where he used the word “negrito”.
You can google it yourself, but whatever the regional and cultural connotations of the word, this is clearly a reference to Evra’s skin colour and as much as the “term of endearment” defence is being rolled out, it’s hard to imagine that any exchange during a game between Liverpool and Man United would be so friendly as to include any reference to either party being the other’s sweetheart.
Did Evra really take offence? I don’t know, could he have taken offence? Of course he could and that’s the root of the issue here. Anyone can say whatever they want, with whatever intent they like, to whoever they like but if the other person takes offence then you’ve over stepped the mark. We’ve all said things “taking the piss” only to find that we’ve hit a raw nerve and what do we do when that happens.
Obviously I can’t speak for you, but I would suggest that an immediate “I’m sorry, I didn’t realise that would offend you” would be a good way to defuse the situation. Again, as far as I am aware, at no stage has Suarez come out and said, publically or privately, that he’s sorry for insulting Evra, or to that matter explicitly said that he didn’t mean to.
So to the FA panel, presumably faced with Evra’s version of events and a statement that he felt insulted by Suarez, when they look for a denial of events do they get one? It appears not, instead of “I didn’t say that”, they get “where’s your proof?” and instead of “I didn’t mean to insult him” they get “that means something different where I come from”. And in any case, even if Suarez hadn’t meant to offend Evra, the offence was taken.
The point here being that the laws of the game are quite unequivocal on this sort of thing. Law E3(1) prohibits the use of “insulting words” and E3(2) increases the severity of breeches of the first rule when the breech includes reference to “any one or more of a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability”. Not exactly done like a kipper, but it’s a wholly reasonable conclusion that Suarez breeched both of those rules.
Of course the FA are trying to make a point and of course this might not have happened had Blatter not ham fistedly got involved, but that doesn’t make the point (that no form of racist offence will be tolerated and that it’s ok for players to come out and say they’ve been abused by another player) any less valid. Banning players, for significant periods, is a step in the right direction and will prove a damn sight more effective both on and off the pitch than waving banners, handing out stickers and wearing t-shirts.
Which brings us back to where we started with Liverpool’s unequivocal support of Suarez. At best, it’s ill judged. Ok, so they might want to point out that they don’t feel that Suarez is a racist (and as I said earlier, I suspect that they may be right) but by moving the debate onto whether he is or isn’t they are essentially saying that what he has been found guilty of doing doesn’t matter, which is wrong.
Just a little point.. During the investigation it emerged that Evra also said things to offend Suarez (what exactly we don’t know). So, even though that doesn’t break the second rule, surely this breaks the first rule which was “prohibits the use of insulting words”? Therefore, if Suarez is found guilty then surely so should Evra be found guilty? Instead, the FA has solely based it on the racism issue and there has been statements from both the FA and Evra agreeing that Suarez is not racist. Therefore, the argument must be that the FA have issued a severe punishment to someone who has said something completely harmless to him and this has been taken out of context by another? So surely an 8 game ban for a misunderstanding is very severe and the FA have got this wrong and, if anything, have blown it up completely out of proportion and in the process tarnished the reputation of an innocent man?
All that effort to post something that is almost totally speculation.
Who would you say is in the best position to know exactly what was said and what occurred during that game. You, or the players and staff that were involved in it.
Who would you say is more likely to know what type of person Luis Suarez is, what type of character he is, what he is likely to say and not say and whether he is the ‘type’ of person capable of racial abuse. You, or the players and staff that work with him day in day out.
As per usual the media is steering the general public in a certain direction and you, for one, are happy to follow. Wait for the report to come out and the subsequent appeal to run it’s course and then make your mind up on your own.
The lines that have been all over the media are:
PE: ‘Don’t touch me, you South American’
LS: ‘Por que, negrito?’
There has also been specualtion that instead of South American Evra used the term ‘sudaco’ which is a derogatory term always and everywhere while negrito can be used in a positive or netural way.
*Por que negrito’ can be translated to ‘What was that mate?’ According to numerous reports, Evra speaks Spanish and did address Suarez in Spanish. Therefore it’s perfectly natural for Suarez to answer in Spanish without much thought to whether a non-native speaker knows the true meaning of all the words.
I’ve no qualms with any suggestion that Evra was also in the wrong, I don’t know why he’s not been disciplined. My issue is with Liverpool encouraging a false sense of injustice and moving the debate away from the real issue (whether it’s acceptable to cause racial offence) onto a more emotive one (whether Suarez is a racist).
Evra has claimed offence from Suarez’s words, and the only measure of offence is whether it is felt, not whether it is intended. The whole thing smells of people being badly advised and it just keeps getting worse. An apology (rightly or wrongly) would probably have made it all go away.
As for speculation, Bill is possibly right, but I’ve tried to use the position as presented by LFC as much as any other.
As for besmirching Suarez’s character, isn’t this the fellow who bit off another player’s ear and Deliberately cheated (& then celebrated deliberately cheating) in a world cup quarter final? What reputation?
Finally, to use the argument that seems to be gathering weight, LFC started this, if they hadn’t used our ground to make a political statement then I’d have no grounds to have written the article.
Interesting point of view in this article and even more so the comments…. but look i think it better to not let the situation drag everyone down. You guys should be stoked with the result considering it rubber stamps the clubs turn around in form. Not only that but Suarez is on the verge of scoring a bag full but you didn’t allow it on the night..
I strongly believe that it is one of Ferguson’s conspiracy to ruin his rivals… Suarez, you have our full support!!!
Contradiction every bits in this article. It is either racist or not. Insulting words? Believe “fu@k you” is an insulting word too. Unless … In England all are “fu@k€rs”? No wonder they don’t find this offensive.
It’s just your opinion that the sense of injustice is false. There should at least be the benefit of a doubt, you cannot ban someone for nearly a quarter of the season because of a misunderstanding. Still, it’s best we wait for the evidence the FA has. It might take another two months but that’s just business as usual for them.
It’s funny how none of the other players, none of the match officials and none of the cameras picked up any of the more than ten times Suarez said the n-word to Evra. With the evidence presented up to now, I think the Liverpool supporters and especially manager and players who are more in the know than your average punter are completely entitled to have a sense of injustice.
seriously, don’t be offended by what took place at your home ground. It wasn’t a political statement it was a show of brotherhood and unity which is the Liverpool way. We’re proud of the boys and if Suarez is in the wrong he will suffer the consequences and we will suffer with him just as I hope you would if he was one of yours..
And what has he been found guilty of? The lack of detail from the FA has led to a media firestorm in which the lad has been branded a racist.
Being incorrectly labeled a racist is someting i’d do more than “point out” if it happened to me
Isn’t there a difference between being a racist and using “racist” language?
1. Both the FA and Evra agreed in statements that they didnt beleive Suarez was a racist person. So he’s guilty of using words deemed to be racist then?
2. Who maintains the list of racist words? The Fa? May we need a government quango?
How do we cater for languages where no like for like english word exists? As is speculated in this case. Do we guess or approximate because some of the same letters match?
Or do we ignore what the true meaning and context of the word/phrase means in his mother tongueand throw out the cultural differences as well for good measure? I find it ironic that the foaming at the mouth moral guardians are ACTING in a way that is entirely discriminatory against an individual who is of mixed race himself and may have used a word/phrase that has no english equivalent.
Of course this all could have been avoided if the FA had issued the reasons and details of the proceedings at the same time as the “guilty” verdict.
Chewbaccas_Roar (nice username, kicked myself when I saw your email, should have guessed).
Yes there is a difference between being a racist and saying something that is racist. Even more so there’s a difference between being a racist and being offensive by referring to the colour of someone’s skin.
There’s no need for the list of racist words, “the colour of someone’s skin” is often as plain as the, err…, nose on their face.
There’s also no need to try and accomodate every language going. As I said, the measure of insult is mostly whether it is taken, not whether it’s meant. But on one point if not was meant then why no attempt to reconcile.
“could have been avoided”, yes, but I’d be very surprised if the written reasons bring about any kind of “oh, we were wrong” from anyone. Liverpool have pretty much exposed the extent of both arguments anyway. I suppose there could be a smoking gun that no one knows about.
Just to clarify, I do not care whether Suarez is guilty or not (although the fact an eight match ban has been imposed leads to to think he is), what I care about is the stunt pulled at the DW Stadium and the way LFC as a club are conducting themselves.
In fact, if you pressed me I would always ‘support’ either Liverpool or Everton against any of the Manchester clubs. I just don’t think LFC and their supporters are handling the incident with their usual class.
Kenny Dalglish’s comments re punishing Wigan Athletic FC for allowing their fans to show disgust at this Suarez stunt and the attitude of the LFC supporters with their racist Patrice Evra banner, beggars belief.
I do admit that the FA need to be a lot more transparent and that LFC should have some kind of recompense should the ban imposed on Suarez not fit the ‘crime’.
Just leave Wigan Athletic FC out of it is all I am really saying.
Interestingly the Independent reports that Suarez can only appeal against the severity of the suspension not the verdict.
Again I haven’t judged Suarez the F.A. have and I cannot beleive that they are so pro United and anti Liverpool to stitch it up
What is they say “those who wear tee-shirts in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”.
Can understand why this was done (Evra is not innocent in all this), but could they have not waited until Monday’s match against Blackburn to make their statement?
This stunt was done in our backyard, please don’t be offended if we respond and it’s not what you want to hear.
Ok.. we’re very sorry that you were inconvenienced by our immediate support for Suarez (as if we could have waited for the Blackburn game leaving Suarez hanging after the suspension was announced).. but surely you can appreciate what’s going on here